diff --git a/meshms.c b/meshms.c
index dcbe22c5..e69bcabe 100644
--- a/meshms.c
+++ b/meshms.c
@@ -183,30 +183,41 @@ int meshms_remember_conversation(const char *sender_sid_hex,
   }
 
   // Check if there is an existing one, if so, read it and return it.
-  char manifestid_hex[RHIZOME_MANIFEST_ID_STRLEN+1];
-
-  if (rhizome_meshms_derive_conversation_log_bid(sender_sid_hex,manifestid_hex))
+  if (rhizome_meshms_derive_conversation_log_bid(sender_sid_hex,
+						 l->cryptoSignPublic,
+						 l->cryptoSignSecret))
     return WHYF("Could not derive conversation log bid for sid: %s",sender_sid_hex);
-
+  char manifestid_hex[crypto_sign_edwards25519sha512batch_PUBLICKEYBYTES*2+1];
+  tohex(manifestid_hex,l->cryptoSignPublic,
+	crypto_sign_edwards25519sha512batch_PUBLICKEYBYTES);
+  
   int ret = rhizome_retrieve_manifest(manifestid_hex, l);
   if (!ret) {
     // Manifest already exists, nothing to do just yet.
   } else {
     // Create new manifest
+    if (rhizome_meshms_derive_conversation_log_bid(sender_sid_hex,
+						   l->cryptoSignPublic,
+						   l->cryptoSignSecret))
+      return WHYF("Could not derive conversation log bid for sid: %s",sender_sid_hex);
+    
     rhizome_manifest_set(l, "service", RHIZOME_SERVICE_FILE);
     rhizome_manifest_set(l, "crypt", "1");
 
-    // Ask rhizome to prepare the missing parts (this will automatically determine
-    // whether to encrypt based on whether receipient was set to broadcast or not)
-    sid_t authorSid;
-    if (cf_opt_sid(&authorSid,sender_sid_hex)) {
-      rhizome_manifest_free(l);
-      return WHYF("Failed to parse sender SID");
-    }
-    if (rhizome_fill_manifest(l,NULL,&authorSid,NULL)) {
+    // Ask rhizome to prepare the missing parts
+    if (rhizome_fill_manifest(l,NULL,NULL,NULL)) {
       rhizome_manifest_free(l);
       return WHY("rhizome_fill_manifest() failed");
     }
+
+    rhizome_manifest_del(l,"date");
+    rhizome_manifest_del(l,"author");
+    rhizome_manifest_del(l,"sender");
+    rhizome_manifest_del(l,"recipient");
+
+    uint64_t initial_version=0;
+    urandombytes((unsigned char *)&initial_version,sizeof(uint64_t));
+    rhizome_manifest_set_ll(l,"version",initial_version);
   }
 
   // We now have the manifest, so read the associated file, if any,
diff --git a/rhizome.h b/rhizome.h
index 2e4454c4..3cb4d739 100644
--- a/rhizome.h
+++ b/rhizome.h
@@ -254,7 +254,8 @@ int rhizome_read_manifest_file(rhizome_manifest *m, const char *filename, int bu
 int rhizome_hash_file(rhizome_manifest *m, const char *filename,char *hash_out);
 
 int rhizome_meshms_derive_conversation_log_bid(const char *sender_sid_hex,
-					       char *manifestid_hex);
+					       unsigned char *bid_public,
+					       unsigned char *bid_private);
 int rhizome_manifest_set_real_sender(rhizome_manifest *m,
 				     const unsigned char *sid_binary);
 int rhizome_obfuscated_manifest_generate_outgoing_bid
diff --git a/rhizome_crypto.c b/rhizome_crypto.c
index e4d0d0d9..cc403f33 100644
--- a/rhizome_crypto.c
+++ b/rhizome_crypto.c
@@ -663,7 +663,8 @@ int rhizome_manifest_set_obfuscated_sender(rhizome_manifest *m,
 }
 
 int rhizome_meshms_derive_conversation_log_bid(const char *sender_sid_hex,
-					       char *manifestid_hex)
+					       unsigned char *bid_public,
+					       unsigned char *bid_secret)
 {
   int cn=0,in=0,kp=0;
   sid_t sender_sid;
@@ -685,10 +686,11 @@ int rhizome_meshms_derive_conversation_log_bid(const char *sender_sid_hex,
   bcopy("concentrativeness",&secret[o],l); o+=l;
   crypto_hash_sha512(hash, (unsigned char *)secret, o);
 
-  tohex(manifestid_hex,hash,RHIZOME_MANIFEST_ID_BYTES);
-
+  bcopy(&hash[0],bid_secret,crypto_sign_edwards25519sha512batch_SECRETKEYBYTES);
   bzero(hash,crypto_hash_sha512_BYTES);
   bzero(secret,sizeof(secret));
+
+  if (crypto_sign_compute_public_key(bid_secret,bid_public)) return -1;
   return 0;
 }